Safe Speed Forums

Popular "L" plate car car. Maybe some people that do their lessons in a Micra go on to get the same car they learnt in because they don't feel confident that they can drive a different car, and also extend this lack of confidence to their driving...

Was going to say the same thing!


Yep, agree with you completely (but that's not such a rare event ).

Although at least Micra drivers aren't usually aggressive, they're just a bit clueless. For example, once you do manage to overtake the 35mph Micra driver on the rural single-carriageway road, you don't tend to get flashing lights. In fact they might not even notice you at all.

BTW, the newer Micras may look ridiculous, but I quite enjoyed the one I got as a courtesy car. The older-shape one that I got a couple of years before was horrible though.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

Some garage in Blandford's selling a really blinged up thing called a "160 SR Nismo".

I got quite excited until I did some digging and found it wouldn't pull the skin off abowl of custard... still imagine a Micra boy racer.

It was like this but with big alloys for heaven's sake...

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?bg=000000&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/2166000-2166999/2166647_8_full.jpg

But the Highway Code say I can only do so if they moving more slowly in outer lane. in a crawl situation .. or am I gettin mixed up with foreign over UK here

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And then I remember the early Metros - all noise and no anything.(As Clarkson might say -they didn't try it with a rice pudding in case it got pulled in ) Still that thing might look decent with a decent set of wheels on it - say Volvo Truck size ( That would stop it moving )

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

That is correct, and the Highway Code is not law, and in this case does not refer to law, so one can presume that overtaking either side is not illegal.

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Andrew.

Actually going back to weepej's thing about me hitting his weak point, mine as previously stated is the Citroen ZX.



They always seem to be driven by people who just don't give a monkeys about driving with any finesse.

One cannot presume anything such thing
Just try making a deliberate lane switch to your left to pass another vehicle (on its left) and then returning to your original lane in full view of a copper and see where that gets you.
The HC doesn't exist for fun and to be given a damned good ignoring when it suits us because it isn't law. You could be done for DWDCA because the HC can be used as a metric against which a persons driving may be compared when considering whether, for example, a maneouvre is reasonable and considerate to other road users.

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Never mind the Micra, if you see any car waiting to turn out from a side road...and waiting...and waiting...and then pulling out just as it becomes unsafe to do so it will always be a woman driving. I don't know why it should be so, but it is. Sorry, ladies! (retreats into handbag-proof bunker)

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Save a cow - eat a vegetarian

I also find that's a frequent tactic adopted by cats wanting to cross the road - decides to make a dash for it just when you have to brake to avoid it

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Better to make a quick move when the bigger thing you're trying to avoid is close to you I figure as it'll take longer to turn than you and you can steal more of a march on it; not that a car is going to do that, but hay, they're cats, they don't know that.

My type of Micra. With 3.5 litre V6

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Simon

Possibilities that I see are that :
Your action of the long and gradual approach for your overtake, enabled
them to 'think' about their overtake, PLUS they do not assess your
approaching speed, so they (in their eyes) simply pull out and overtake.
They have no concept that they have effected your flow and pace at all.
They could have done it on purpose to deliberately slow you down, or
'show' you that you must think about them, or a host of other equally
wrong reasons .. sadly .... (incorrect ability and or wrong attitude)
They haven't even assessed that if they pull out, at that moment, to do
their overtake, that they are in any way effecting you or your overtake.
(total mis-judgement)
That they are blind to you either because they have not done a 'lifesaver'
look over their shoulder and seen you, not looked in their mirrors properly
or possibly not looked at all (through lack of care and inattention).



I think that this occurs in many instances, inc after overtakes of
horseboxes and lorries etc for the following reasons:


The vehicle they are approaching and wish to overtake seems to be
slower than they feel is right to do, so they overtake, however ;


1) now that they have a clear road, they become less than sure, become
uncomfortable, and so slow down.
2) some simply like to follow and unconsciously slow down,
3) some want to progress, but the passenger tells them to slow, the
passenger being uneasy about the overtake (or driving),
4) some have scared themselves in doing the overtake and then slow,
5) they overtake for the vision and then resort to the limit, or to 'their'
cars version of the limit, or their version of a safe speed.
6) some want to teach and remind lorries / cars w/trailer that they should
be in a limit, and so slow down to drive to that !!!
7) some are deliberately wishing to be antagonistic that they have been held up - the worst of all - not that the above reasons are much better !

Unless you stop them and ask, you are never going to know, for absolute
certainty, and some will never even realise or remember if you did (ask).

All we can hope to do is recognise them and the hazard that they pose,
and enable them to be around us for a short as time as possible.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

If it was explicitly illegal then the Highway Code would say "MUST NOT" rather than "should not" or "do not".

So, as long as it's not dangerous, inconsiderate, etc. etc. then it's ok.

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Andrew.

Why only quote the first piece of my reply, not the bit where I qualified it



So you cannot presume that overtaking on the 'wrong' side is legal just because it is not expressly illegal in the HC. It depends upon how you go about it; I know you can get done for making a deliberate undertake involving a lane change and then back again because I've been in a car with someone when they did it and got stopped. Whether the highway code uses the words MUST NOT or not, if you can get nailed for doing it then that amounts to pretty much the same thing.
But, if you want to carry on splitting hairs then fine, but please let me be around when you make your (ahem) 'legal' undertake in full view of a copper

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Hmm...
You can only be prosecuted for violation of a law.
So as there is no law saying "overtaking on the 'wrong' side? pay us £60 please" then it would have to be another law you'd be prosecuted for violating.
Probably dangerous driving?
Then, presumably, the text of The Highway Code could add weight to the claim of dangerous driving. But the police officer would have to state, under oath, that your driving was dangerous.

I would probably not be overtaking anybody in the view of a police officer. They make me too nervous.

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Andrew.

No, I believe DWDCA using the HC as evidence of what proper care and attention should be will suffice.
I must say I find it quite interesting that you apply such an element of guesswork...probably this, presumably that. Are any other aspects your driving based on assumptions about what you are and are not allowed to do and what you can and cannot get done for?



How odd, they don't make me nervous at all. But are you are telling me you won't pass anyone on a motorway if you see a police officer around

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Going back to the 'overtaking then slowing down' thing. My colleague noticeably speeds up when she changes lane to the right and slows down when changing to the left. Consequently we pass the same cars that have just passed us a fair bit. It's like she's got an idea that:

"You do 60 in L1, 70 in L2 and 80 in L3"

Occasionally I get overtaken by a youngish female, usually quite smartly turned out, at a very high speed, who then slows down considerably shortly afterwards. When I re-overtake, having not changed my cruising speed, they tend to look cross It's like they can only drive quickly in short bursts; any explanation, ladies?

I had a discussion with a police officer friend about this. The legal position is that if it is not specifically illegal, then it is specifically legal - which he had to agree with.

The point is that when driving, lots of different laws apply at once, so while there IS no law saying that you may not overtake on the left, similarly there is no law saying specifically that you must not receive, ahem, "oral relief" from your front seat passenger. It would be fairly hard to argue that you were displaying due care and attention (to the road, anyway) during that situation, though.

And so it is with overtaking on the left. If the police officer can prove beyond reasonable doubt that you were not displaying due care and attention, then you have acted illegally. If you can prove that there was reasonable doubt, then you have not acted illegally. The wording of the highway code used to support this as it only mentioned a differential speed, not absolute speed. The burden of proof does tend to fall on the driver, though, as in British law the word of an officer of the law tends (rightly or wrongly) to weigh more than the word of a member of the public.

The wording of the advice in the Highway code changed in the last edition, so that it now specifically mentions overtaking on the left in "slow moving traffic" (whereas previously it just said where traffic in the left lane is moving faster than traffic in the right lane). There is no definition of slow moving, though, so you could possibly argue the case on that. I suspect magistrates will have their own view on what "slow" means?

I used to overtake on the left occasionally, before the new highway code came out, with the change I have desisted and gone for the 5 lane manouevre (L1 - L2 - L3 - L2 - L1) . I don't really mind so much as I think it's important not to get too used to driving in one lane, lane changing is a skill and the less you use it, the more likely you are to get worse at it.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

That is because I don't know for certain. I am fairly sure, but not 100%. I have found in the past then when I say "this is true" it often is not. This is especially true where law is concerned, it's way too complicated!

What Handy wrote makes sense. That is what I was trying to say.

However I have driven in Florida. (including being overtaken by two trucks, one on either side)
Since I've driven over there I have lost the ability to care which side to drive/overtake on.



I don't know. They always have and always do make me nervous. Their job is to find fault with what you are doing and steal your money for it. Or that's what the law seems to be being used for. If the law was more simple and more sensible then maybe I wouldn't see the police as such a threat.
I did once overtake a police car sat in lane two while I was in lane one. I got past the roundabout before he did.
I did it very slowly as he had been goading me into exceeding the speed limit previously. Then he took off obviously above it.
He couldn't find a reason to pull me over though. Hehe.

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Andrew.