Safe Speed Forums

I won't bore you with a long story, suffice to say that the company I presently work for won't spend a penny on anything unless they are forced to.

Just before xmas, the H&S bods were in and they ruled that all employees must have protective footwear...so the company does it's bit and buys us all steel toecapped boots after ascertaining what size we take.

Yesterday (friday), we all collect our boots & sign for them.
First thing I notice with mine is that they are slightly too big (roughly half a size) and that my feet are constantly moving around inside them.

I point this out to my supervisor and ask him for a 6½ as opposed to the 7 that I requested. The supervisor got a little arsey with comments like "don't you know your own shoe size, etc" and I pointed out that any shoe/boot/trainer I purchase from a retail outlet in size 7 fits me perfectly and obviously whoever made the boot has a different idea of size 7 to the rest of the footwear industry.

The supervisor then went on to inform me that safety boots were not available in half sizes and I would simply have to wear an extra pair of socks

Now there is no way on this earth I am going to f**k my feet up because the company are too tight to buy a decent boot, and of course there is no way they are going to let anybody work if they don't have the boots on.

So the question is, where would I stand (no pun intended) if I decided to push this?



PS

I did say to the supervisor that I would be more than happy to wear my own steel toecapped boots (Doc Martens), but was told that unless I can provide documentary proof the boots meet a certain standard then they will not be allowed.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

You could probably go down to a size 6.

For as long as I can remember, there has always been a discrepancy in shoe sizes between trainers and normal leather shoes. eg I wear size 9 shoes but size 10 trainers. I have no idea where workboots come into this, but based on your post, I'd guess they match up with the shoes rather than the trainers.

As for whether wearing ill fitting boots is against H&S regulations, no idea but I'd suspect it is.

The boots need to meet the standard for the type of work you are doing.
Many of these boots also protect the ankles from impact and have oil or heat resistant soles (at the compromise of grip)
There is loads of protective footware outthere but most of it is mail order.

Failure to wear the correct footware provided would be an offence under the health and safetey at work act. Most building sites and chemical plants would send you home if caught not wearing the kit specified.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Gixxer, what are you protecting your feet from? There are loads of boots available from countryside shops that would probably fit your needs unless it was some particularly nasty chemical. When I bought (with my own money) my boots I was like a girl trying loads of different sizes, makes and models on, but landed on a really good pair (then I found out that I can book them to the farm, cock). I'd be reluctant to wear anything on my feet that was just issued to me without being able to try them on first.

My boots are half a size to big really, it's not the end of the word.

The discrepancy in footwear sizes is due to the conversion from continental to UK sizes.
A shoe made abroad as a 46 falls between 10.5 and 11, so might be stamped as either!
A UK made shoe will of course be one or the other, and more expensive, so your firm is saving money at the expense of comfort!

I can wear a size 11 UK EE width, and therefore have to be careful buying shoes made abroad, and depending on the source, manage to get into a 46 or have to go to a 47. I also have a high instep, so where as a 46 trainer might fit, a 46 boot might not, because it wont accommodate my instep. Check this guide and recommend it to your firm!
http://www.dbshoes.co.uk/measure.html

It is important that you get it right, as long term use of an ill fitting BOOT can do lasting harm to your feet, and store up problems for the future.
A trainer is flexible enough for the laces to pull the shoe to a snug fit, but a boot will be a lot stiffer.

As to the H&S requirement, it is the company's responsibility if they insist they supply footwear/clothing, to provide footwear etc. that FITS for the reasons outlined above.
If you provide your own footwear, it MUST be of the appropriate type and standard, but you should reclaim the cost against your income tax - and this applies to ANY clothing or equipment which YOU provide, which is essential to the proper conduct of your job.

When I worked in a hotel, we were provided with a uniform jacket to wear, but I had to have two pairs of black dress trousers, five white shirts, and a dicky-bow tie and black leather shoes.
I was able to offset ALL of the above against tax, by filling in an expenses form.
With my encouragement, the chambermaids successfully claimed back money for tights which were ruined through being splashed with the chemical cleaning agents used, as these were not provided by the hotel.

http://www.dssafety.co.uk/ Check out this company for reasonable prices, or Google safety boots, and look for firms which offer a variety of fits.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Find someone with a size 6 pair you can try on. If they don't fit either then say you need a different brand of boot as the ones chosen aren't fitting properly. I'd also try the suggestion of an extra pair of socks. If your feet are moving around too much even with that they still need to provide the right size. Also the time of day when you try them on is significant. Feet swell during the day and also in hot weather so if you tried them on first thing in the morning you may find that in the summer afternoons you won't have as much room in them as you thought.

To add.
Wear GOOD socks, as they will stop your feet sweating, and chaffing.
ASDA are selling safety boots for less than £20, which are branded with their GEORGE tradename, but are made by Hi-Tech, and look identical to the Timberland boot, at £72! However the laces are not as good as the Timberland product!!

The ASDA boots meet EN ISO20345:2004, and a size 12 is marked as 46 european!!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Hi Gixxer

I actually went down this route back in 1985ish. Although I worked in the drawing office, because I had to go onto the workshop floor I was told I had to wear them.

My usual size is ideally a 7.5, (I'm 6'2" but with small feet). At the time they said they didn't come in half sizes so I went with an 8.

I felt like a clown, and walked like one too! My feet moved around inside the boot, like you mentioned, and an extra pair of socks didn't work.

Because they were too big I found, for some strange reason, every so often I'd trip; the front of my boot would dig into the floor and I'd look like a goof.

Eventually I bought my own, which they were happy with - and me

These days, I have a fungal infection on my big toe, another drawback with old age and stifling your feet in boots - motorbike this time. So I would recommend that when you can, at lunch breaks etc., you take them off.

I wear Birkenstock at work these days. Expensive but very comfortable and hygenic. I wore them all the time in California where they are incredibly popular.



PS. Small feet doesn’t mean small willie BTW

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Timberland is a fashion brand. My laces only last a couple of months anyway.

The boots I where are Buckler and Scotland is the model name. Best boots I've ever had. They don't get looked after and are in their 5th winter. When I mount my steed I kick the mud off them on the steps and have done so so often that I now have a bare right toe cap, which looks very authentic! A pair of more expensive CAT branded boots only lasted 9 months. The didn't like irrigation!

From the leaflet with a pair of Capps boots --
EN345 safety foot ware - 200 steel toecap suitable for most industrial situations
EN346 safety foot ware - 100 steel toecap, for light industrial use --e.g Executive/food processing or similar .
EN347 Occupational foot ware - no steel toecap

Then there is resistance to heat , penetration resistance ( inner steel sole ), Electrical resistance /Antistatic / insulation against heat/cold /water .
Then sole type & material -
Polyurethan - suitable for most conditions and hot contact,but not metal swarf
Nitrile Rubber - suitable for most conditions and heat up to 300c
PVC- suitable for most conditions but heat up to 120c

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Gixxer, can you download the relevant ISO certificate from DM's website or request one via email? They should be more than happy to oblige.

Large companies typically view H&S legistation as an aggravation they have to be seen to comply with, IME you shouldn't expect too much off them, although maybe an expenses allowance of £20 for providing your own boots might be worth an enquiry (ie you're paying the difference between cheap nasty company boots and ones you can wear?)

When I worked for the leccy board the boots were dire, a few blokes had rows regarding them. Including the blokes who dug holes for a living, who had an "allowance" of 2 pairs per year, of boots that typically lasted them 3 months! I once wore a pair of boots held together by insulation tape to our "end of apprentiship presentation", the training manager gave me a dressing down in front of everyone, bosses etc, after I let her finish I mentioned my new boots had been on order for 4 months, and as I was contractually bound by themselves to wear the boots, what should I do? heh.

BTW, do you do a lot of kneeling down? If so, some tosspot with a simplistic view of H&S may deem you need safety boots for you protection, but they may cause more problems than they solve, as especially the cheap ones, the steel toe cuts into your foot when kneeling, expect lots of RSI injurys claims in the future.

I've worn (non steel) caterpillars for years now, always found them pretty good. BTW steel caps, especially cheap ones, do have more room than typical shoes to allow the toe to bend if you drop a car on your foot. The far more present danger of falling over your damn clown shoes is deemed less important.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

PS your company could also look at using a mobile safety workwear service, they chould come round once a month in a big stocked van, and allow you to try boots on.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

They also have reasonably priced steel toecapped footwear in Aldi, sometimes. To BS standards. Just take the paperwork in.

You could also try buying them yourself and claiming back through the government. Or against tax.

Years ago if you needed some workwear that your employer would not supply, DSS would pay your back the money you spent. As your employer declines to provide you with boots that fit, this might be the case here. Unless Blair/Broon stopped this.

But you could still claim it against tax, I think.

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

The tax angle is worth investigating, but it's likely that a workwear allowance is included in his tax coding, that was the case when I was at MEB.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

Yes, but I wonder if that was something the MEB/unions negotiated?

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

Would have had more to do between the MEB and the taxman, as he's the one being claimed from, but possible the union played a part if the negotiations were MEB-specific. But from what I gathered it was more a general "employed tradesman" thing that tools and clothing costs are allowed for in the tax code. Same with office staff, Project engineers etc who'd have to buy blouses and suits etc.

But, of course, it's worth looking into:)

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

Standards quoted in the example I gave are CEN European standards for PPE (Directive 89/686/EEC) ,to the European harmonised standards EN..... AS PER MY POST.
S0o -it looks like ,yet again ,BS is not good enough .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Today BS numbers usually "incorperate" EN standards, at least they do in most of my game.

I would check the quality of aldi boots too as you may be buying something nothing better than what work are offering, something you wear all day every day when you're on your feet is something you want well made, my cats cost me about £80/pair and I wouldn't scrimp to save a few bob.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

Couldn't say how much mine cost - I just order them every six months (as per my manager's instruction) ---but can certainly recommend CAPPS, especially the GORETEX ones - let you're feet breath, but almost waterproof, hiker style, supporting ankle, with steel mid sole that lets you flex the foot. Not too heavy either.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Just an update....

After all the "argy bargy" from management on friday, nobody said a word to me today when they saw me wearing my own boots (Doc Martens).

I also spoke to a friend last night (who is a little bit of a militant in the workplace), and it transpires that the company are legally obliged to ensure that any safety gear provided fits correctly....so I guess if the management want to get stroppy over the boots then it will be them forking out if they want to push it (which will never happen).

Many thanks to all who responded.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?