Safe Speed Forums

These days my heart sinks when I see a local council sign advertising pending "improvements" to a road, because they don't usually mean improvements like I do.

It means building cycle lanes.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Quite a few people on other forums are saying they're not bothered by this as it only adds a couple of minutes to their commute. I'd like to address this in a way which I'm sure a lot of the older SafeSpeed members should appreciate, unfortunately as this forum doesn't support the [strike] tag, I've had to use grey text instead, apologies that this layout makes it look like I'm calling all lorry drivers communists, that isn't the intention at all.

In Germany the UK, they came first for the Communists Lorry Drivers, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist Lorry Driver;

And then they came for the trade unionists 4x4s, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist didn't drive a 4x4;

And then they came for the Jews long distance drivers, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew only drive half an hour each way;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up.

Unfortunately, commuters aren't the best people to judge this. Consider that most commuters waste a lot of their time sat in jams and at junctions that are clear most of the day.

The real people who this will effect are the long distance drivers who are used to fairly clear a free flowing roads which will be impeded by either sticking to 50 whenthey could be doing 60MPH (an extra ten miles travelled every hour) or sat behind every grandad doing 40MPH and no one bothering to overtake because "hey what's the use, we can only go ten miles/hour faster anyway?"

Don't forget in an 8/10 hour driving day, a constant 60MPH will get you 80/100 miles further on than travelling at a constant 50MPH. That would be the difference between getting home and spending the night out.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

On the other hand, an asda driver was suspended for 2 weeks recently for driving at nearly 60 on a s/c road.
One of his managers was driving behind him.
Another got "fined" 2 grand for not sticking to the route he had been told to drive....apparently they lose loads of whatever by drivers going their own route....something to do with "favourite" laybys ?
Oh, and one of the vehicles "caught out" by the road closure (advertised on everything including signs along the road for weeks) was a trucker. He couldn't turn around and had to wait until the barriers were removed so he could use a crossing point and get back the way he had driven.
Mind you, several hundred cars a day were caught as well.....but they could divert....

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

As someone who regularly travels fairly long distances on S/C A-roads, like West Cumbria to Newcastle on the A69 (100 miles) or even within West Cumbria itself (whitehaven - Carlisle or Barrow (50 miles)) I feel mightily miffed about this! It's not just the extra travelling time. That would be a relatively minor irritation rather than anything else IFI could "average" 50 along such a route. The truth, of course, is that it's pretty much impossible. No, the nasty, insidious side of this, for me and others like me at least!) is the fact that it is actually a reduction to 40! The reason is that the big HGVs are already limited to 40 on such roads. The roads are twisty and scenic with few overtaking opportunities. This has 2 effects:

1. A queue will build up behind each artic, made up of drivers who would go faster were it not there but who can't be bothered for the sake of another 10MPH. Nevertheless, they won't leave enough of a gap between one another for people in a hurry to "leapfrog" during the few safe overtaking opportunities. Of course, what they'll quickly realise is that the HGVs won't "average" 40 either. They'll drop to 30 or even 20 on the uphill bits!

2. Overtaking in those areas where it is safe to do so, without exceeding the new speed, limit will take longer. This will be inherently MORE dangerous (anyone who thinks otherwise is welcome to drive as slowly as they like on the wrong side of the road and see how long they last)! Not only will this increase the time exposed to danger, but it will ensure that fewer motorists can get past the obstruction (HGV / caravan / horsebox / tractor / whatever) at each of the suitable overtaking opportunities. Again. this will lead to frustration and, I imagine, some rather more risky overtaking manoeuvres elsewhere.

Of course, transiently exceeding the speed limit whilst overtaking was never a problem to any half-sensible traffic cop...

...but we're not dealing with them any more . The safest places to overtake are the long straights with good visibility. These, coincidentally, are also the best places to put the cameras / park the scamera vans.

Exactly, I forsee the country becoming one long tail of traffic doing 40-45 MPH with no=one wanting/daring to overtake in case of being "snapped". At least back in the seventies when we had the 50 MPH limit we didn't have "safety" cameras to worry about and it was set for what seemed to be a good reason at the time (fuel shortage) and we knew that it would be returned to normal at some time in the future (although they didn't quite get to make it 70MPH NSL on single carriage ways....;-( )

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Folks,

It's just more of the same. I noticed in the Telegraph article that the company advising the government on road safety stats is the same company that makes the average speedcams.

Will this never end until they have cameras on our bathroom walls?

C.

PS - Must reread Orwell's 1984.

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More rules and regulations please! (Not)

That just goes to prove that politicians don't have the brain power to think for themselves,

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Can the cameras distinguish beteen two side by side vehicles?

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

One would assume so, but I don't know if the algorithm is actually smart enough to know what to do if there are two plates in frame. Some truck have plates fitted showing their nick, I'm sure these would be outlawed if the algorithm couldn't cope with these in frame with the VRM.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I should have said can the radar, not the camera, distinguish between the two vehicles. I think that it is doppler radar. If it gets returns from two vehicles at different speeds it will probably use the strongest but that could jump between the two vehicles making it impossible to get a stable reading.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Ah, OK. Yes, AIUI you could well be correct. Care to try it for us

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

If you will drive the other car

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

With gatso/truvelo the camera takes/stores the picture. The only one to use "radar" is the gatso.
With specs the software extracts the registration number from the video data. No radar. Continuous monitoring.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

To be honest, I was thinking more of scamera van operatives than something truly automated. I would have thought that while they'd wholeheartedly support lower speed limits in the Lake District, the National Park authority wouldn't be able to stomach the "road furniture" that goes with average speed cams despoiling Beatrix Potter's landscape.

not wishing to compare racing with motoring (although I wish that some of the motor racing discipline could be adopted by many motorists), but in motor racing when the cars are bunched up on track, that is when a higher chance of collisions occurs, when the cars spread out (after the quicker cars pass the slower ones), it reduces this risk greatly. lowering limits will increase this bunching. e.g. Motorways when a police patrol car sits in L3 at 70mph or a slow lane hogger, and how every one is nearly bumper to bumper and all it takes is for the slighest braking and bang!
As mentioned in other forums about blocking of overtakes, in motor-racing their is an etiquette where you can't weave profusely to block an overtake as it is dangerous, yet so called "slow = safe drivers" do this (not necessarily weave) on the road.
I'm happy to move over for,or assist, an overtake on myself, yet one of the biggest preventions of me performing a safe overtake on others is this light flashing, horn honking, gesticulations, and suddenly flooring it to prevent it.
Was driving along a road towards halifax where an overtake lane opens and i was in a long line of cars, i went past a van who then tried to close the gap to the car he was following, and I blended in gently as the overtake lane ended and the chap in the br1t1$h gas van threw a rite tantrum! maybe my overtake wasn't entirely necessary but why the need for that reaction?

Maybe this should go in the "how to spot a Numpty" post but the above post made me think........!

Numpty definition of the "bad guy".....anyone who overtakes (AT ALL)....anyone using any other lane than the left one on a roundabout....anyone travelling more than 40MPH (on any road)....any car over 1000cc

Numpty definition of the "good guy"....anyone who has none of the above criteria, doesn't waste valuable time looking in mirrors,indicating or moving into the correct lane/position on the road.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I am not doing his study justice - I merely paraphrased and am looking to place his info on the safe Speed website, to make it easily accessable for a number of reasons.
His work is extremely involved and will answer all your queries.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.