Safe Speed Forums

Someone I know, who is very conscientious about obeying speed limits, when recently entering a speed limit was so concerned to comply and so focussed on their speedometer that they collided with the curb and damaged the rim of the nearside front wheel and wall of the tyre.

Fortunately no real harm was done and no one was hurt, but it could so easily have turned out otherwise, if circumstances had been slightly different and there had been pedestrians in the way.

I agree with having sensible speed limits, applied with reasonable discrimination, but I felt this was a typical example of how concern about rigorous enforcement of speed limits can become counter productive and it indicates why the speed camera policy is not achieving any reduction in road casualties.

The same person has previously succeeded in writing off two cars in ten years, while well within the speed limit, by colliding with stationary vehicles. My view is that this has mostly been due to a lack of situation awareness.

Someone else I know recently had quite a serious accident and wrote off their car when they pulled out onto a main road and were hit by another car. They are blaming the other driver for excessive speeding, possibly 80mph in a 60mph limit, and said that having checked for traffic the other car came onto them so rapidly that they could not have avoided the accident. One can say and contemplate all sorts of things about this, such as distraction from children in the car, possible drinking, inexperience and distraction of the other driver, but it would seem that inattention on the one hand and lack of anticipation on the other were probably far more important factors than the speed of the other vehicle.

When I think about all the accidents I am personally aware of, speed was very seldom the major factor, except where there were illegal rouge drivers and which resulted in serious injuries and fatalities.

To me this very well illustrates the message which Paul Smith has been trying to get across, in which it is the attitude, anticipation, attention and capability of the driver that is far more important than the numerical speed number, providing that the speed is sensible for the prevailing conditions.

As I believe Paul has often said, we need police patrols to stop and remove the rouge drivers and the necessary help, support, information and training for the rest of us.

If only the relevant authorities would take note of his message. However as we are all too aware, the real interest would not seem to be with improving road safety, but with obtaining as much income as possible from the speed cameras.

I agree, speed is seldom the cause of an accident, but definitely an ingredient of it.

It is unfortunately down to simple awareness, as you rightly say.

I believe speed limits, if applied in a constructive way are definitely useful.
As it is placing cameras (but not speed cameras) in accident hotspots.

With the modern digital technology, it is possible to connect the camera to a central CCTV recording system.

Having worked on such solutions in the past, I know it is possible, and in fact, done by several broadcasting companies.

It is cheaper too than installing a speed camera that needs manual intervention.

Near a school, generally a 20mph or 30mph speed limit is in place.

I read that as saying: please proceed with extreme care as the little ones can run in front of you at any moment. I see the 20 or 30mph limit not as a target but as an upper limit, so i proceed more at like 15mph and make sure I pay more attention to what is around me than the speedometer.

In the 40mph that follows though, there is no risk going much faster and therefore no need to scrupolously keep to the 40 limit.

I also find that when i make good progress on safe stretches of road, I am more than willing to slow down for areas of higher risk, just because my senses are hightened and I recognise the peril ahead.

It really all makes sense if you consider that most accidents involving speed as a major ingredient are really only occuring in slow speed areas where really excessive speed is only a consequence of distraction or simply stupidity.

In high speed areas (motorway or clear A roads) speed is seldom a contributing factor.

Sounds like someone you know needs to get their priorities right and concentrate on observation of the road as well as the speedometer.

And even when it is, the crash and the speed are usually BOTH the results of 'driving like a knob'. i.e. rather than the speed being a (useful) contributory factor to the crash, there's some attitude failure that actually caused the speed and the same attitude failure caused the crash.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Dr L, your friend is simply a rubbish driver. You cannot honestly be suggesting that the speed limit was to blame for them hitting the kerb. Any driver and particularly a rubbish driver is more dangerous at higher speeds than at lower speeds (this seems obvious to me but then I did physics at school).

Surely 'speed' is a factor in every road traffic collision, after all if there was no speed involved the cars would be stationary. Its also obvious to anyone with an education that a vehicle travelling slowly is able to stop sooner than one travelling faster. Therefore slower cars are less likely to be involved in an 'accident' Obvious right?

You folks really believe that removing automated speed limit enforcement will result in safer roads. I cannot even begin to understand how you can come to such a conclusion. And Ive tried to understand, I have read a lot of what PS has to say, have read a lot of the threads on here but I remain completely unconvinced.

Yes speed is a factor in every collision. Welldone. You studying physics have helped there. I too studied physics. There is no doubt in my mind speed increases the severity of the crash. But if you observe your surroundings the chances of you having a collision are reduced. Speed should not be a focus of safe driving it should be a by-product. You should always give your self space (i.e distance) and time. As some one who studied physics you should be able to see where speed comes into it.

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

if low speeds are so safe, why are there more crashes on sections of road where the speed in is Circa 5 mph? oh yeah because if the speed drops too low then you are in a queue and at that point a small leapse in concentration or a mis reading of what the car in front is doing and you have a rear end shunt.

So how is it that crash rates vary so wildly from country to country? What makes the difference? What's the largest factor?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Yep.


Yep.


Right again!


WRONG!


Hang around here a while, and I guarantee you will become convinced!

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

miguel makes the error of confusing driving speed with impact speed. It does not necessarily follow that if one is higher then the other must be.

Obviously it is desirable to avoid collision altogether, through a set of measures including skills, mindset and road conditions, than to suffer them but only at reduced speed.

I did'nt see that suggested - only that this driver is a known collision specialist, whose efforts to remain within the law turned him into an even bigger risk to his well being than usual.

How many old age pensioners manage to run down their partners each year, while they are stood in front of or behind a previously stationary car?
How many vehicles bump the car behind or in front while parking?
SPEED has NOTHING to do with collision possiblity and little to do with your ABILITY to stop safely - if anything, a low speed encourages a driver to mistakenly think they are safe from a collision.

It is a commonly held belief that stopping your vehicle renders you safe.
Try that in lane three of a motorway, and you would be proved wrong. Steering it safely out of harms way would be far more safe.
Power is nothing without control was my driving instructors constant reminder to all his pupils!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Please miguel - come to New Zealand and drive around.

You will notice two things within a few days, how slow everyone drives - and how often they hit each other.

During the last seven years I have come across some sort of crash about once a month - although I can't be certain, either very few or none were caused by someone exceeding a speed limit.

Most of them were drivers not leaving enough space or SMIDSYs.

As far as I can work out, the basic problem is most drivers are simply not aware when they are driving badly (usually too close), but are aware of their physical speed (slow). It would be far better to ban speedos - and prosecute everyone who didn't drive at an appropriate speed for the conditions.

I did have another thought, which has probably cropped up before - everyone caught exceeding a speed limit should only be prosecuted for dangerous driving - if this can't be proved before a judge and jury then the accused person gets £10,000 compensation paid for by whoever brought the prosecution.

Miguel, in the last ten years I have had three vehicles written off as the result of accidents. In all three cases my vehicle was stationary. In all three cases the other driver was not paying enough attention to what he/she was doing (2M, 1F, before you ask). In all three cases the other driver was driving within the speed limit.

The vast majority of the dangerous driving I have witnessed has been committed by people driving well within (and in many cases well under) the speed limit.

I have been overtaken by various boy racers in their chavved-up Fiestas and “corporate” morons in “look-at-me” BMWs , and although they were speeding whilst doing so, and although I automatically thought “what a w***er” ( a sign of grumpy old age?), they were often quite safe in doing so. (Mind you, I have seen similar people doing some incredibly stupid things).

On the other hand I have seen people suddenly slowing down for no reason, failing to indicate, tailgating, slamming their brakes on at every slight bend in the road, frequently taking their attention from the road to chat to the person in the passenger seat, dawdling along well below the speed limit then accelerating as you try to pass them, wandering into the opposite carriageway, paying more attention to changing their CD than to the road ahead...the list is almost endless. But they were all driving within the speed limit, so in their tiny little brains whatever they did was OK, no matter how stupid or dangerous, because they have been conditioned to think that speed is the only dangerous factor in driving.

IMO, the single most important factor in road safety is the awareness of the driver and how he reacts to the ever-changing situation around him. (yes, I know there are women drivers – many of them very good ones, too, but I loathe political correctness and as Winston Churchill said “In my experience, he embraces she”).

The present fixation with speed limits distracts drivers from the really important aspects of what they are doing.

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Save a cow - eat a vegetarian

But the reality is that she embraces he.

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

Cor b***er, that's proper clever!

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Save a cow - eat a vegetarian