Safe Speed Forums

We should remember that Warranty Direct are experts in the field. If they believed speed humps caused the problem, they'd have mentioned them, too.

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

I read here that those thin tyres cause damage to the wheels when you hit holes and bumps. Are they as strong?



Normal wheels are fine, but they'll try and sell something "hi-tech" for $500 if they think they can!



You can spend your money on schools or health, or you can fix potholes. I'd rather fit strong wheels and watch out. Each to his own, but I don't want to pay more taxes to fill in pot holes so people can drive over them faster. But OK, there's a balance to be drawn. I get your point.

One thing we've forgotten here is the 80/20 rule. That's what applies in Canada - here we just hose money down the drain.

Looking over their press releases summary page, it seems potholes are something of a recurring theme for them...

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Chris

It's not so much whether they are as strong but the fact that there's not as much of them. I imagine one could drive my old Series III Landrover at a kerb at pretty much full speed and not worry about buckled rims because the tyre sidewall was about as deep as a kerb is high. "Low profile" tyres have, if anything, STIFFER sidewalls than full profile tyres but they are smaller, so there is less depth over which to absorb an "intrusion". It's componded by the fact that the lowest profile tyres (as has been said) tend to be fitted to the widest alloy rims. Not only are alloy rims less stiff than steel ones but because they are wider (and generally have more inset), the inner rim is a very long way from the spokes, and thus, unsupported, which makes it very easy to "oval" one when hitting a sharp ridge.

That was what I was tring to say

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

Perhaps anohther issue is vehicle adverts. I dont know what they are like in the US, but in the UK adverts for SUV "type" vehicles typically shows Wannabe "Marlboro Man" hurteling over rough ground bouncing feet into the air over large boulders and so on! "Real" all terrain driving is done really rather more cautiously.

Perhaps this lulls the "Urban Warrior" element into thinking that their "lifestyle" 4x4 is actually capable of handeling this sort of treatment without suffering serious damage leading them to feel that they can fly over kerbs, potholes and speed bumps with impunity.

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

So they are less strong, is that right? Sorry, I'm trying to get it straight. Which is the more "robust", if I can put it that way? Your old land rover wheels, or the "racing car wheels" that you see on new cars?

I don't want to spend a fortune in tax smoothing out the roads, and then find that the problems are caused by weak racing cars wheels or defective drivers (or, if you are very unlucky, both at the same time).

OH YESSSS! If it's strong wheels & tyres you're after, it's the Series III Landie every time! I've seen light trucks with more fragile "boots" on! As an added bonus, they still had old fashioned inner tubes so you could fix punctures as simply as on a (very big) pushbike!

Whether, of course, that would make me want to own another one, is a very different question! I still remember towing a boat up to Scotland with it at an average of 13MPG and at the end of it pining for the relative peace and tranquility of a "Metallica" gig!

Do racing cars wheels improve fuel consumption? Is that why people fit them, instead of robust wheels made of steel?

Light alloy wheels with wide tyres improve handling and stability (but only of course if the vehicle suspension is designed for this fitment), by reduction of the unsprung weight. The low profile tyres improve high speed running thanks to stiffer sidewalls and an increased surface area of traction (and therefore reduced dissipation per unit of rubber). In the dry they also improve on sustained braking and cornering performance for the same reason.

Balance this with potentially worse handling in the wet, particularly when getting down a bit on tread (more water to displace), dramatically worse in the snow (you need ice skates not platforms in the snow to cut through to terra firma). And yes, by definition, wheels have been pared to a lower resistance to impact with kerbs (be it graze or bump), and a need to treat potholes and speed bumps with care.

Yes. Those things are important for a racing car, but I'm wondering about using such wheels for "around town", so to speak, i.e. for going to work or picking things up from the hardware store etc. Do we need all that stuff you have listed for those jobs? We are not in a race, eh?



Indeed. Some of these complaints about potholes can be put down to the choice of wheels. Can you ask for "normal, strong wheels" or do they come with fancy, racing car wheels as a standard thing? It could be a money spinner for the makers.

Not needed around town at all. However, on twisty country lanes and fast A roads they give greater reassurance for the spirtited driver.

The other important advantage I meant to list of the wide low profile alloys is that typically they do LESS damage to the roads thanks to less weight per unit area at any one time and less impact due to lower unsprung weight.
Most cars that offer alloys have a steel wheel option. It often comes with the smaller engined lower spec varieties. Prestigious marques often have no steel option but do give a choice of wheel (often 16" med profile through 17" low to 18" "rubber band" tyres).

Then it's a tradeoff. If you want fun, look out for potholes, basically.



You pay less for robust wheels, eh? The world has indeed gone mad!

So you think potholes are a good thing then?
poor road surfaces are good?

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

Yup, though there is a deeper twist. Robust wheels can be shod with all sorts of different tyres. Robust tyres have very different constructions to protect them from impacts, be they kerbs, potholes... however, such tyres do not handle speed at all well thanks to the dissipation aspect in the side wall flexure on the robust tyres. "Faster" tyres are typically not more expensive than robust ones, but these get damaged by potholes. This is arguably worse than damage to wheels as it is unseen and likely to lead to blow-outs.

Drivers have a right to expect a certain standard of tarmac, but the actual standard has slowly but surely slipped over the years.


You pay more for alloys because they are more costly to produce, made to a tighter tolerance and so on. As we both know all these things are governed by supply/demand. There are many "aftermarket" alloys so I don't think it is a cartel situation.

No, they are just a sign of something good. They are a sign that my tax is being spent parsimoniously.

Look, I don't want "billiard table" road surfaces just so that racing cars don't damage their wheels. You have to expect a bit of rufty-tufty, and if your car can't take it, bad choice. On the other had, I don't expect the roads to be full of craters. And they're not, at least where I live.

Yes, it's governed by vanity more than by cartel. But I'm not shelling out tax to pay for vanity. You have to choose tough cars, or pay out. Some choice, eh, but as you say, tough cars are cheaper than "lemons". Or, in a conciliatory tone, cars with tough wheels are cheaper than cars with less robust ones. Perhaps that sounds better?

I chose alloys, not for vanity (I have a Honda Accord. If I wanted to be vain I'd have a beamer or similar). The alloys were so that I have more comfortable cornering and more reassuring braking from speed. It works.

I also have metallic paint. That cost more too. However, it is more robust and, paradoxically, I got a better lease deal as a result (it is deemed to have a higher trade-in value, probasbly because of its alleged robustness after 4 years).

I also have an automatic. That put the lease price up quite a bit. Not for vanity, and certainly not for robustness - my choice though, I wanted extra comfort (I also have a gammy left knee )

My old Toyota had them. They were hard, but also hard to clean, and they pealed and went bad. They worked OK though. It's possible to make wheels with good characteristics that include robustness.

But I'm more of a "any color you like as long as it's black" sort of guy. That's not because I dislike the other colours, but the whole deal is much cheaper that way. Call me crazy if you want, but I especially like reusable, standard components to drive costs down. My way of doing things is no longer in fashion, but maybe it's starting to come back? Drabness is the new fascination!