Safe Speed Forums

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

HOW many drivers are killed after being taught by their parents? Has anyone bothered to collect the statistics?

If the aim is to reduce 300 deaths, then that can only be because the TEST failed to spot their shortcomings, not because the parents were not up to the job! Of course you need to monitor new drivers - not prevent them from being able to afford decent training!!

Is anyone else alarmed by those TV adverts claiming that you can earn up to £35,000 a year by becoming a driving instructor - no previous experience required!!?

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I wonder how much the annual "registration" fee is for government approved driving instructors??

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

As the man from the AA indicates, this is one for the Law of Unintended Consequences- more untaxed, unlicenced, uninsured drivers who are almost impossible to catch by automated enforcement. If it costs a lot of time, money and is difficult, why bother?

Strange, at a time when school exams are being dumbed down to ensure everyone passes, they want to make the driving test harder.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I firmly believe that setting an official objective of having a far higher proportion of young people passing the driving test before the age of 21 would significantly improve road safety.

If only a privileged 20% élite get a licence, it's hardly surprising they consider themselves to be superior and drive accordingly, without restraint of peer pressure.

Having said that, I don't interpret these proposals as banning learners from gaining experience with parents, just that they will be required to have a minimum number of hours of professional tuition.

The report in the Times today suggests that the more extreme proposals for post-test restrictions have been rejected:

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/li ... 864634.ece

Not surprisingly, BRAKE are disappointed

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

this is rather stupid, will they ban parents from tutoring their kids in maths next because they are not maths teachers. If 'dad' can get you to the required standard that this should be good enough. Also as 'dad' has emotional attachment he/she is more likely to do a decent job than the instructor who is primarily looking to earn a living from instruction. Of course the ADI's will be pushing for this.. chance to print money..

still keeps another load of feckwits off the streets, as I suspect they'll be a big gap in the market for driving instructors.

The dvla should be making sure people take regular follow up training not a one off mega course never to be repeated again. In every profession people take ongoing training, why should driving be different.

Sounds like part p for electricians, home information packs etc.. create an industry and regulation, where market forces were doing just fine

This is yet another E.U. directive which is being disguised as a "government initiative". It will happen, because it's already been decided by Brussels, so our provincial government in Westminster have no choice. What irks me more than anything about this kind of thing, is that they pretend it's their idea rather than admitting that it's an E.U. directive. Grrrrr!

Home information packs are an E.U. directive.
Part P also an E.U. directive.

There's a bit of me thinking "Well what the hell DO we want then"?!

Pretty much everyone on here hates scameras and automated enforcement in general, claiming that it's no substitute for decent driving standards in the first place - something with which I wholeheartedly agree!

Now we seem to be moaning that if the driving test gets too hard, people won't bother taking it!

I feel that if we are to be taken seriously by the authorities, we need to make up our minds!

Of course, I also agree that stopping parents from teaching their kids to drive is also wrong. As has been said, it really shouldn't matter WHO does the teaching as long as the candidate meets the required standard. If the standard of drivers passing the test is too low, it's the fault of the test!

Indeed. German and now French systems require the instructor to say when the student can take the driving test. It has led to accusations of "money making /grabbing" over the years


But even so.. going out to practise what has been formally taught with the parent or other qualified does help gain that experience behind the wheel

Lots of other relatives .. including BiBs in this family and IG is one hard one nutcase to please

We tighten up the rubric of the driving test and cycling Bikeability .. but we also tighten up on the calibre of those doing the teaching too We are paying for this in any case - so I am entitled to want to be sure they can deliver quality teaching here . especially if teaching my own kids

Germany and France may insist that the driving instructor has the final say as to when the candidate is ready to sit their test. BUT - as far as I am aware - the learner can still practise with a suitably qualified adult - including parents

Should not boast .. but we've now produces three under 21s who are all IAM and now RoSPA qualifieds.

to them.

But we've been careful in that we booked blocks of 6 initial lessons with an ADI at different times of day to get "feel of conditions" .. then let them practise with ourselves and other adults in the family/circle of pals.. followed by another similar timed block of six lessons to polish up properly

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Has anyone bothered to check the pass rates for ADI tutored drivers versus parent/friend tutored drivers ?

It is a few years since I looked, but even then it was disproportionate.
Something like near 70% for adi-tutored V 30% +- for other-tutored.
Mind you, the pass rate for the theory/haz-perception is about 50% overall anyway.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

If the cost of tuition is very high and the gateway to getting a test appointment is via an ADI this seems too restrictive. If we want new drivers to attain high standards then lessons need to be fairly inexpensive so they can have as many as they need. Practice and experience can be got with parents as well as paid instructors. One of our aims on here is to raise the skill level of the driving population and you can't do this by making getting a licence very expensive as this will put people off (not off driving, just getting a licence).

Human nature being what it is, how many ADIs would insist on a course of, say, 12 lessons at £35 as a pre-requisite for a test recommendation? How many would give the test OK to a new driver (who was competent and experienced due to parental help) after just one assessment "lesson"? How many would just take a bribe?

Make the test as practical and demanding as you like but anyone should be able to apply to take it without the say-so of an ADI.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I'm all for hard - and periodically repeated - driver training, and all the effort that currently goes into automated speed enforcement catching rogue drivers.

You don't hear many people on here moaning about ANPR - though it would be good if genuine rogue drivers had something to fear if they were caught....

If this goes through - we'll see a record number of 17 year olds on learner legal motorbikes, with almost all the same personal freedoms as cars.

This may be good or bad, but I would expect, bike cas stats to increase - simply due to the increase in exposure.

As usual the press have got it totally wrong.

There are no plans to ban parents from providing lessons for their children; properly structured private practice is highly valuable to most pupils.

What is proposed is there will be a requirement for every pupil to have a minimum number of lessons with an ADI (at present there is no requirement). Nothing whatsoever to prevent parental tuition supplementing this.

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That's how Nazi Germany started. They'll be burning books next. (Brian Noble, Wigan coach - updated 20/4/06!!).

Is there actually any evidence that people who have passed their test without taking formal lessons have a higher level of risk?

I would have thought if anything the opposite applied - the highest level of risk would come from those who had only had lessons with a driving instructor and had not had any opportunity to practice outside that.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

A more robust test is the answer.

I was going to suggest that the EU may be behind it all but it seems I was beaten to it....but right!!

I have taught a couple of people to drive over the years, before handing them to an examiner to teach them how to pass their test.

But, when I started to teach my fiancee to drive a couple of years ago I accepted that my driving standard was possibly no longer up to the level of passing a driving test (taken 18 years earlier), joined the IAM and passed my advanced test, picking up a good few tips along the way.

Would a good compromise be that the parents must have reached a mimimum standard of advanced driving before being allowed to teach their children?

Before I took my driving test I covered thousands of miles with my Dad instructing me, he held a PSV and HGV licence and had done police driver training whilst in the fire brigade. I covered as many miles again with my 18 year old mate in the passenger seat, back when the only requirement to 'sit in' was to have passed your own driving test.

This would give legal recognition to advanced driving qualifications not operated under regulation by the Government. If the Government introduced officially sanctioned advanced testing etc. what would be the benefits accruing to the person passing? Ability to go faster than the speed limit without penalty, perhaps?

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

else also commented -not just the candidate -surely the instructor should be up to the job too.
Perhaps ,if we need to go down the route of some compulsary ADI instruction ,then ,if a newly qualified driver is involved in a serious incident so many years after getting a licence ,then the ADI and the examiner's notes should be studied .Works in industry.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Unfortunately the instructor can only see how the pupil drives when he/she is in the car with the pupil, it would be a bit harsh to punish an instructor/examiner for passing a model pupil just because they turned into a hooligan once released on the roads.

I would take more time to stress the consequences of crashing a lot more during the drinver training. We had a cracking road safety presentation by a traffic copper where I work last year, some shocking photos of real accidents and a few idiots filming themselves driving which led to crashes. This made a lot of people sit up and think, I would make something similar compulsory.

It's been suggested many times before but what if we required a motorway test before being allowed to drive on motorways, obviously this would have to be phased in over a few years to allow the millions of drivers to get this new qualification.

This could even be part of an introduction of compulsory re-testing which I personally would be in favour of. It would cost a few quid but it would stop people thinking that passing your driving test means you know everything about driving.

This might lead to a nation of drivers more likely to leave a safety bubble around their car instead of tailgating, allowing the motorway speed limit to be raised.

Get caught tailgating, revoke the motorway licence until the test is passed again.

Alternately if the government were serious about road safety they could reward people by having different levels of insurance tax based on the training level of the car driver. Hang on I just suggested the government cutting tax, I'll go run my head under cold water. That's almost as silly as having genuine road safety measures instead of scammeras.