Safe Speed Forums

I got caught speeding on a motorway 2 weeks ago. I was doing well over the speed limit, but as we all know, speed limits aren't always appropriate, nor do they dictate what is safe or not. Anyway, I knew I'd been broken the law when the VASCAR pulled me up and said I'd averaged 98mph. I declined to see the vid and accepted a fixed pentalty because my licence is currently clean.

Anyway, got my licence back on Saturday would you Adam and Eve it? AN SP60 on it!!!!!!!! (instead of an SP50)

I've since rung up the fixed penalty office for them to correct this "clerical error" as I worded it, and they said "it's what our system says" blah blah, blah" and they gave me another number. I rung the other number and they couldn't help and I end up going round and round in circles until I told the bloke I will get back to him once I've got some legal advice because they all just want me to go away which I'm not prepared to do!

I've looked all over the fixed penalty notice, and the only thing I didn't understand was code "0552" I have since asked what this means and it means "exceding a 70 limit", nothing miscellanious about it at all.

Anyway, what do I do next? Get a solicitor? Citizens Advice? National Newspaper? What?

_________________
www.clubrwd.com - For all things rear wheel drive

Dodgy SP60 penalties have come up in this thread and Paul has already done a PR about it. Very dodgy, since AFAICT SP60s should be virtually unheard - the other SP codes seem to cover all the bases and I'd always assumed that the SP60 is there just in case. I really don't know what to do about this. I'd have suggested contacting the Fixed Penalty Office, but you've already tried that. There's been a recent suggestion on the Pepipoo forums that SP60 is used for speeding in roadworks. Any roadworks about where you got pinged daveyboy? In any case it might be worth posting about this over at Pepipoo as they may be able to advise you on how to deal with this. You'll need to register, but it's free.

For the reference of anybody who's not familiar with the various codes (probably not very many round here ) www.lawontheweb.co.uk lists them here as:
SP10 Exceeding goods vehicle speed limits
SP20 Exceeding speed limit for type of vehicle (excluding goods or passenger vehicles)
SP30 Exceeding statutory speed limit on a public road
SP40 Exceeding passenger vehicle speed limit
SP50 Exceeding speed limit on a motorway
SP60 Undefined speed limit offence
If that list is accurate then I can't see any reason why daveyboy didn't get an SP50. [/url]

_________________
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

I got fed up of being transfered around between the court, the fixed penatly office and the Police, so I went to the local cop shop. I clutched in my hands all the neccessary paperwork, plus a copy of the safe speed press report which I could refer to any facts if neccessary.

Wasted trip tbh, the first thing that was established was the fact that the copper was offended by the Safespeed logo. Apparantly, as a Jewish man, he was offended greatly by SS. I'll be honest, I couldn't work out why and he looked at me like I was stupid for not knowing why? Is anyone else here a Jew? Are you offended? I'd be interested (as I'm sure Paul will) to know this as it really suprised me. (I now understand by the way).

Anyway, apparantly, the "0552" code in the book that Police Officers carry, it means its a "Exceeding a temporary 70mph speed limit". ie a clerical error, how would I know this? Also, I find this strange as when is a temporary speed limit above the normal speed limit? The courts translate this as an SP60 therefore I've paid the fine and there is nothing I can do (apparantly) as I've pleaded guilty to the offence!

Typically, the civilian staff at the reception were unsuprisingly patronising, there first approach was "you could have killed someone" blah blah blah heard this propaganda before so I told them that they weren't there to see the conditions were suitable and then they turned it round that "the law applies whatever the conditions" blah blah blah. Isn't it unbelievable that if a lie (ie Speed kills) is told often enough, people think it's the truth!

_________________
www.clubrwd.com - For all things rear wheel drive

From looking a bit more at the threads on Pepipoo the one thing you mustn't do is let this drop, notwithstanding the guff they gave you about clerical errors and it being too late to fix since you put your hands up. Number 1 - you've admitted the offence and paid the penalty they demanded, so why should their cock up become your fault? Number 2 - if your insurer bumps up your premium for an SP60 but not for an SP50 then you are unreasonably out of pocket, and if they actually refused you insurance that's a big millstone round your neck that'll be a nightmare to get rid of. Search the Pepipoo forum for SP60 and you'll see you're not the only one this has happened to. There's been several people who have been given the same runaround you have, though I've not looked at all of the threads so I don't know if any have been resolved yet.

I'm a little bit suspicious that this SP60 "clerical error" is going to be abused by TPTB to hammer drivers now that more and more insurance companies are ignoring an SP30 or two when setting premiums. Not something we can let them get away with if this turns out to be a new tactic.

_________________
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

I've just done an internet quotation on my car with a clean licence, an SP30, an SP50 and an SP60. In the case of elephant.co.uk, they don't differentiate between the 3, but the premium goes from £554.35 for clean licence to £674.05 in all speeding cases. I wouldn't use elephant anyway as I was getting quotes on a standard car and mine has a modified engine and it is fully declared to a specialist insurer.

I'm aware that SP60 will effect me more with some insurance companies, but the stress involved is too much. If it was a clerical error by the court that could easily have been sorted, I'd push for it, but I'm not risking a court appearance and a bigger fine for the sake of my principles. Besides, it would be my entire honeymoon savings blown on solicitor fees and my fiance wouldn't be too pleased, neither would I tbh, but trust me, if you knew me in real life, you'd understand how this pains me to admit defeat.

_________________
www.clubrwd.com - For all things rear wheel drive

I too got a sp60 for 43 in a 30mph roadworks section

Instances of 'offence' like this make me wonder whether the individual concerned is really offended, or has simply identified a convenient 'get out' to deflect attention from the issue at hand. In the current climate its become very easy to do this, and the offence issue soon ends up becoming the dominant one.

Could it be that the 70mph motorway speed limit is still classed as a 'temporary' limit?

Cheers
Peter

_________________
Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

For those who DONT know what a WAFEN SS logo looks like, I picture it here.

I cannot begin to imgine where anyone can connect Paul's Safespeed logo with the one above. (In case it offends anyone's sensibilities, I found a fake SS logo on a regular army helmet)!

Whatever next, well endowed ladies objecting to British Telecom using the initials BT?
Good job he was'nt confronted by Rig PIG!!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I am supprised that the police officer did not resign his post in protests at the german officers uniform worn by the queens grandson. I doubt he was jewish at all.

It is an old tactic, throw an odd ball at the start and then bully your way through the rest.

It comes up occassionally. I don't believe I've ever found anyone who was genuinely offended or concerned - in other words it's (usually / always) just an excuse to have a pop. If it wasn't that, it'd be something else.

btw, for any that have not realised, the logo is a UK speed limit sign implying the useful and important message that drivers MUST NOT exceed the Safe Speed for the conditions.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Exactly.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I believe the Home Office is issuing fresh guidelines. They even encouraged the Telegraph to run the article to try and get it sorted out.

I will contact the Home Office today and get the correct proceedure from them. I'll also try to get it in writing in a form that can be copied and sent (/ taken) with the driving licence.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

i am jewish and astonished at the reaction of the bib,anyone who has seen
the war footage could not confuse the ss logo or the waffen ss
utterly riddiculous..am new user but had to respond

Thanks goldy, I'm glad you have responded to this

It just shows how ultra-pc our Police have become when they're finding offence in things that. It shouldn't be offensive and are behaving as if thats the crime of the century and I'm glad someone on here who could be offended (according to the copper) and isn't.

Scary thing is, the diversion tactics kind of work, we're all talking about this when we should be talking about the SP60!!!!!!

_________________
www.clubrwd.com - For all things rear wheel drive

I have a feeling that SP60s are far from uncommon, I have the SP60 code on my licence for 73 in a 60, no road works!

I think you're probably right Paul. It's all down to context and I don't see how anyone can realistically confuse the Safe Speed logo with the use of the initials SS in the context of Nazi Germany. I think it's fair to ask if the same individuals object to Jaguar SS100s and would want all remaining examples of these classics rebadged or disposed of, of if they find the use of S.S. to refer to Steam Ship equally upsetting. If so should I start objecting to the term "couch potato" and picketing Spud-U-Like since I'm Anglo-Irish and had ancestors who lived through the C19 potato famine. Or should I take it in the context in which it's meant?

_________________
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein