Safe Speed Forums

Perhaps one way of frustrating the anti-4x4 bigots is to make all cars look like 4x4s. One of these cars is the current Toyota RAV4, the other is the new Nissan Qashqai which replaces the Almera next year (and will be available in both 2wd and 4wd). You'd be hard pressed to tell them apart.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

How about the Panda 4x4

Anyhow it has already been established that "gas guzzlers" include the humble Beetle so common sense has long since left the building..

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Speed camera policy Kills

yeah, they're both fugly.

I'm going to be accusing the anti 4x4 brigade of inciting hatred if and when the opportunity presents. That should represent a substantial dilemma for politically correct weenies everywhere.

Are there any anti-anti 4x4 people I should be talking to?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

http://www.4x4prejudice.org/

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

http://www.stopurban4x4s.org.uk/



Wankers!

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Speed camera policy Kills

Not my choice of language but well put!

I find these anti 4x4 people perhaps more irritating than any other people linked with motoring because their arguement is just SO flawed, its AMAZINGLY flawed. They clearly don't have the ability to critically evaluate data and come to a reasonable conclusion and are really stupid for spouting such non-logic. They must have very low IQs or alternatively, have some hidden anticar agenda they wish to put forward.

I for one would love to see the demise of those Hum-vee or pickup type things that have never seen off-road in their life! They're usually containing some fat yuppie who's on their mobile phone while fiddling with the GPS system.

Not to mention the fact they've usually got a 4 or 5 litre engine getting probably 10mpg stop starting through traffic. Why on earth do people buy these things for urban driving? Manchester and Liverpool seem to be teeming with the things nowadays! It just seems to be a complete waste of time for something which is no more than a 'look at me' status symbol.

Just read with interest both those sites, for and against. The "pro" 4x4 one presents laughable arguments with no citations whatsoever!

For example:

"A lot of 4x4 owners are not rich show offs... we would say that most are not in fact. Many 4x4 owners have only one vehicle, and choose the 4x4 as the most adaptable and practical."

O.. kay I don't see too many laymen driving X5's, Range Rovers and Cayennes.

"If every X-Trail owner who bought a vehicle last year bought a Ford Focus Zetec instead, there would actually be an INCREASE in emissions. The evil 4x4 ?"

One must ask the question as to why the user bought the 4x4 in the first place if they can get by with a Focus.

The entire site is a farce!

How do these differ - in objective terms - from other types of car that you don't object to? Or do you object to all cars that are large and/or have large engines?

Isn't a Merc S55 AMG just as much of a 'look at me' status symbol?

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

So would you like to ban Ferraris and Roll Royces too? Or perhaps go the whole hog and ban aspiration?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Very interesting. First we have a reversal of opinion on Safespeed. Then "joining" the 4x4 haters. A truly Damascene conversion.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

My name is patdavies and I have a 4 x 4..... oops wrong forum

Seriously, I have a 4.7 litre V8 Grand Cherokee. There are a number of personal reasons for owning and driving this, but the main one is:-

Because it is not illegal and that's what I chose to do with my post-tax income

I could have written this substituting BMW X5 for the Jeep.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I think he the anti brigade thought about a bit more then they'd realise that their problem isn't with 4x4s as such but the fact that many of the urban ones are bought by incompetent drivers because "they're safer".

I think at least some of the anti 4x4 sentiment is driven by jealousy - a base human emotion that can never be addressed by common sense or facts.

Other anti 4x4 sentiment is actually "anti needless pollution" - so some 4x4's are "less" guilty (if you can have degrees of guilt?) than some "road" cars.

There is also an element of bandwagoning - anti 4x4 is seeming to be a popular sentiment these days?

Personally I'm not a fan of 4x4's but I wouldn't seek to restrict them through legal means. They wouldn't suit me as a daily drive (Audi Allroad excepted, perhaps ... or the cheap alternative Skoda Octavia Scout ... but I'd also need a boat to tow and launch if I WAS going to get a 4x4) and I do have a mild objection to oversized tanks with 1 kiddie in blocking the road outside primary schools (but then, I have a mild objection to smart cars blocking roads too!). My brother in law lives in the wilds of Wales and for him 4wd is not optional. My other brother in law chooses to to shoot and fish as his hobby, so most weekends see him heading off the beaten track - again, for him at weekends at least, 4wd is not optional.

The comment about Liverpool and Manchester is timely, I read recently that the current 4x4 disappropbation has caused something of a sea change in the Chelsea Tractor brigade, and the current faoured modes of transport are smaller cars, perhaps there is a segment for luxury superminis? Where London leads, footballers wives in the north west follow?

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

You are forgetting the most important fact that the vast, vast majority of people don't own Ferraris, Rolls-Royces, Lamborghinis or the like, and purchasers of these cars are steady or declining slightly, whereas more and more people are buying 4x4's for urban use.

Someone explain to me why you need a 4x4 to commute in?

I always find this stuff about "oversized tanks" laughable.

OK, there are two car models currently available on the UK market.

One has dimensions in mm of 4667x1872x1751 (l x w x h)

The other has dimensions of 4727x1850x1759

Which are "oversized tanks"?

(a) both
(b) one but not the other
(c) neither
(d) my definition of "oversized tank" actually has nothing to do with physical size

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Another important "fact" is that the majority of people do drive cars that are as long or as wide or as high as 4x4 that consume just as much payed for and taxed fuel, and there is no requirement for "need", desire is enough whilst it remains legal to do so.

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It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.

Upton Sinclair

A friend of mine has a Landrover which was recently vandalised (paint scratched and tyres slashed) whilst he was in town. He uses the landrover for his daily commute to the office and to do his shopping because he can't afford to run two cars.

The 4x4 in question is a diesel and probably uses as much fuel as a large family saloon, however the reason he has a landrover is because he volunteers to help out at a disabled riding club and frequently needs to tow horse boxes to various events.

There were a number of upset kiddies that day that could not go to an event because some environmentalist decided that he was responsible for killing the planet and should be punished as a result. Ignorant Bastards.

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It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.

Upton Sinclair