Safe Speed Forums

Ive ignored the COFP and im still waiting for something to happen..........

I dont like it, theyre up to something.

They have a few months yet. But you wouldn't be the first to be lost in the backlog.

I was expecting for the 28 days to run out and then to have another letter giving me another 7 days, but so far... nothing.

*UPDATE*

Sorry I havent updated recently, things had gone a bit quiet.

I have recieved a court summons this morning (21/2/2007)

Seems like the pace tactic didnt put them off. Ill look into wether I should go to court or plead guilty by post.

A couple of things ive noticed, the offence on the first page is driving an HGV in excess of its relevant maximum speed for that road i.e 40mph but the witness statements from the camera operators and the certificate of evidence from computer says I was doing 48 mph which is in excess of the limit of 60mph, which it isnt! Maybe a small error that wont make any difference but worth looking into I guess. If their evidence is incorrect and wont stand up then I could be onto a good thing....

Ive spoken to a legal type friend of mine (barrister) and hes researched into the whole PACE thing. His expert opinion is that PACE wont work in this case as the evidence the police need, i.e was I driving is obtainable via other means and the police dont need my help in identifying the driver.

Any reactions to this?

Please can you post the exact wording of the offence that they are charging you for.

Is it something like: "Exceeding the 60mph speed limit" or is it "Excess speed (class of vehicle)"

If the wording only mentions a 60 limit and not an LGV then you should be able to get out of it quiite easilly as you will not be attending court to answer a charge of exceeding the speed limit for your class of vehicle (which you are guilty of, sorry) but you are answering a charge of exceeding a 60 limit which you quite clearly are not doing.

I'd still try and delay things though, I guess it may be possible that they could summons you again for the correct offence.

As Lum said, check what you've actually been charged with. If it's exceeding a 60 mph speed limit, I suspect you could get away with saying nothing until the appointed date, turn up in court and plead "not guilty" to the charge as laid. If they haven't already timed out, do not mention your grounds for defence - that would give them a chance to lay the correct charge before the court. The first hearing will be to set a date for the actual trial. You need that trial to be after they've timed out and so cannot lay papers for the correct charge. AFAICT, within reason, you can ask for the date to changed should it conflict with your other commitments - like a holiday, work, or family event.

If they have timed out by the first hearing, it might be good to point out then that 48 mph is less than 60 mph and request the charge be dismissed at that point.

WRT the PACE witness statement - all that does is theoretically deny the prosecution evidence as to who was driving while allowing you to meet your obligations under S172 without incriminating yourself. So, if they have other, unshakeable, evidence that you were driving they won't need to use your statement. In most cases, the registered keeper is the driver and the only evidence they'd have to establish the identity is the confession extracted under duress by way of S172. However, where the RK is not the driver, the prosecution has the S172 return from the RK, and you need to shed reasonable doubt on that evidence in addition to denying them your "confession".

With all that said - I can't stress enough that I'm not a lawyer and this is just my understanding, which could be very wrong. You should be asking over on PePiPoo.

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Will

Im being done for "driving a motorised vehicle in excess of the speed designated for that vehicle on a single carriageway, namely 40mph" or something similar, so no they havent mentioned the 60mph with the offence im being charged with, but the evidence they are using only relates to a 60mph road, no mention of it being single carriageway which would make it 40mph for me. On duel carriageways I can do 50mph. If the magistrate only takes into account the evidence that is given to him by the CPS then there is no way of knowing what type of road this is. The camera being set to 40mph may be a bit of a giveaway though.......

Im told that because the police havent laid out the evidence correctly and left a vital piece of info out i stand a good chance of it being thrown out, personally I think im in for an arse kicking if I try this defence, but im being guided by a professional!

Im on Pepipoo but my thread as died, so im becoming a member!

Eeek,

Just read my bundle again and what I thought was a dupliacted page is infact a summons for S172 failure to provide. The offence is dated a day AFTER my COFP is dated. I replied with PACE well within time via recorded delivery and recieved a COFP on 4/12/2006. The S172 offence is dated 5/12/2006.

What are they trying to do?

Lose, by the look of it.

The law says that during the currency of a COFP all proceedings must be suspended. I'm not the right expert, but that looks fatal to the S172 to me.

Get along to Pepipoo for better advice, and DON'T alert the authorities to the problem.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Im on Pepipoo now, Ive got into the bad boyz and girlz bit and everything Ive explained the S172 situation, and nobody has mentioned that if a COFP is issued all proceedings must be suspended. It would be great it that were true. Ive been told to quote DPP Vs JONES and tell them to go forth and multiply.

On the speeding front, i think theyve got all bases covered, despite their obvious cock ups with the evidence. If a photo is produced, im stuffed. Same if they bring in a witness.

Im told that if I plead guilty I cant appeal when the ECHR case regarding PACE is resolved?

Looks like PACE definately wont work with an HGV or coach or anything fitted wih a tachograph as if im convicted of speeding after pleading not guilty (and I will be convicted almost certainly) and I then appeal after the ECHR verdict on PACE, the police can simply ask my employers to see a copy of the tacho chart for that day and use that as proof as who was driving the vehicle at that time. I would be then have to pay all their costs!

PACE should definately work with a car or similar though, which is what everyones been saying all the time... it just wont work in my case unfortunately

In court today at 2pm. Will update with the results when I get back.

Anyone know the outcome? Or has Tim been banged up as a menace to society, and denied access to the interwebby thing?

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.